The Lantern

Philebus30

SE

Protarchus: Quite so.

Socrates: And can opinions be good or bad except in as far as they are true or false?

Protarchus: In no other way.

Socrates: Nor can pleasures be conceived to be bad except in so far as they are false.

Protarchus: Nay, Socrates, that is the very opposite of truth; for no one would call pleasures and pains bad because they are false, but by reason of some other great corruption to which they are liable.

Socrates: Well, of pleasures which are corrupt and caused by corruption we will hereafter speak, if we care to continue the enquiry; for the present I would rather show by another argument that there are many false pleasures existing or coming into existence in us, because this may assist our final decision.

Protarchus: Very true; that is to say, if there are such pleasures.

Socrates: I think that there are, Protarchus; but this is an opinion which should be well assured, and not rest upon a mere assertion.

Protarchus: Very good.

Socrates: Then now, like wrestlers, let us approach and grasp this new argument.

Protarchus: Proceed.

Socrates: We were maintaining a little while since, that when desires, as they are termed, exist in us, then the body has separate feelings apart from the soul⁠—do you remember?

Protarchus: Yes, I remember that you said so.

Socrates: And the soul was supposed to desire the opposite of the bodily state, while the body was the source of any pleasure or pain which was experienced.

Protarchus: True.

Socrates: Then now you may infer what happens in such cases.

Protarchus: What am I to infer?

Socrates: That in such cases pleasures and pains come simultaneously; and there is a juxtaposition of the opposite sensations which correspond to them, as has been already shown.

Protarchus: Clearly.

Socrates: And there is another point to which we have agreed.

Protarchus: What is it?

Socrates: That pleasure and pain both admit of more and less, and that they are of the class of infinites.

Protarchus: Certainly, we said so.

Socrates: But how can we rightly judge of them?

Protarchus: How can we?