Polus: I can.
Socrates: Why then?
Polus: Why, because he who did as you say would be certain to be punished.
Socrates: And punishment is an evil?
Polus: Certainly.
Socrates: And you would admit once more, my good sir, that great power is a benefit to a man if his actions turn out to his advantage, and that this is the meaning of great power; and if not, then his power is an evil and is no power. But let us look at the matter in another way:—do we not acknowledge that the things of which we were speaking, the infliction of death, and exile, and the deprivation of property are sometimes a good and sometimes not a good?
Polus: Certainly.
Socrates: About that you and I may be supposed to agree?
Polus: Yes.
Socrates: Tell me, then, when do you say that they are good and when that they are evil—what principle do you lay down?
Polus: I would rather, Socrates, that you should answer as well as ask that question.
Socrates: Well, Polus, since you would rather have the answer from me, I say that they are good when they are just, and evil when they are unjust.
Polus: You are hard of refutation, Socrates, but might not a child refute that statement?
Socrates: Then I shall be very grateful to the child, and equally grateful to you if you will refute me and deliver me from my foolishness. And I hope that refute me you will, and not weary of doing good to a friend.
Polus: Yes, Socrates, and I need not go far or appeal to antiquity; events which happened only a few days ago are enough to refute you, and to prove that many men who do wrong are happy.
Socrates: What events?
Polus: You see, I presume, that Archelaus the son of Perdiccas is now the ruler of Macedonia?
Socrates: At any rate I hear that he is.
Polus: And do you think that he is happy or miserable?
Socrates: I cannot say, Polus, for I have never had any acquaintance with him.
Polus: And cannot you tell at once, and without having an acquaintance with him, whether a man is happy?
Socrates: Most certainly not.
Polus: Then clearly, Socrates, you would say that you did not even know whether the great king was a happy man?
Socrates: And I should speak the truth; for I do not know how he stands in the matter of education and justice.
Polus: What! and does all happiness consist in this?